1861C. John Lyons, aged 28, labourer at Waterside, born Ireland, is living at 26 College Street with his mother, Honorah Lyons, 52, widow, midwife, and brother, Patrick Lyons, 21 & a Mary Burke, 11, niece of his mother's, all b.Ireland .In the same house is my gggrandfather, Stephen Lyons, with his family

His mother, Honorah Lyons, dies 25/06/1870, of Dropsy, at 20 College Street, stated age 58, informant Patrick Lyons,[son] and d.c states she is the widow of Timothy Lyons, a farmer.

1871C. John Lyons, aged 35, no occupation, , b. Co. Cork, blind, is living at 36 Brunswick Court, with my Stephen Lyons and his family. John is down as 'son' , which I think was a mistake for 'brother'.

1881C. John Lyons, blind, lodger, no occupation, aged 58, is living at 26 College Street, in the same household as the widow of Timothy Lyons, Catherine [ nee Coughlan], now remarried to Jeremiah Hurley. His age here is daft!

In 1891C, John Lyons is probably already in St. Olaves Workhouse: there is a John Lyons, b.Ireland, aged 61, a retired carpenter!.

Could 'carpenter' be a mistranscription for 'cornporter': his 1894 dc giving him as 'formerly a corn porter'

1893. In H3/OLA/11/1/13, St. Olave Union Admission & Discharge Book, April 1893-Sep 1893, a John Lyons , labourer, R C, born 1839, was admitted on 11/4/1893, and discharged on 12/5/1893, at his own request

Then on fiche X104/283 Parish Street Workhouse, reg.of Admissions & Discharges & Friends of Inmates, on 5/7/1893, a John Lyons, 54, last residence Tooley Street Workhouse, was admitted due to Insanity, friend R. Clark of 67 Bermondsey New Rd, Bermondsey. He was discharged on 12/7/1893 to Cane Hill Asylum, Coulsdon.http://www.urbansickness.co.uk/CaneHillDemolition/img_6820.html & http://www.abandoned-britain.com/PP/canehill/1.htm .

I am sure I must have a different John Lyons in the above 2 records:1. the age is too different: 2. he is given as labourer and mine has been blind since 1871!, and, 3. also, is it likely that my John Lyons was let out of Cane Hill within a month and returned to the St. Olaves Infirmary?? . . for

1893. John Lyons, born 1830, corn porter, R C , was admitted on 9/8/1893 to the St. Olaves Infirmary admittance and Discharge books, LMA, H3/OLA/11/1/009-013, which cover the period 9/3/1890 - 30/9/1893 .

1894. John Lyons dies Tuesday 13/3/1894 d.c.D.19, 63, formerly a Corn Porter, of no.26 College Street, St.John, Southwark. ; he dies in St. Olave's Union Infirmary of Phthisis and the informant is Mary Osborne, cousin, 17 Wolf Street, Bermondsey.

Small world again concerning 26 College Street! and now Wolf Street as well:. Mary Lyons, 1866 daughter of Timothy Lyons, labourer, married William Henry Osborne in 1885. This Mary Lyons is Timothy & Catherine's daughter, aged 15 in 1881C at 26 College Street, and her remarried mother , Katherine Hurley is at 18 Woolf Street in 1901C .

What is mystifying is why he would have been described as 'formerly a corn porter' when he had been blind!!! since 1871 and certainly in 1871C & 1881C he has no occupation. . Maybe Mary was asked what his occupation had been, and at one stage between 1861 & 1871 he had been a cornporter at the waterside .

Infirmary Record of his death

Leytonstone Cemetery record of his burial on 17/3/1894, body brought from 17 Woolf Street, Dockhead.

If the 1891C entry is he, then should be a discharge record some time April 1891- August 1893

2010-2011 For further research need to look at H3/OLA/11/1/001-008 and investigate fiches X104/282,3 &7 as to what they purport to be and for their contents.

Stephen Lyons 1827

Stephen Lyons Hypothetical family

Now think there is a 99% probability of Timothy & Honorah being Stephen's parents [although, given Honorah's young age in relation to that of Stephen, she could be a second wife of his father,Timothy, for, if her 1861 and d.c ages are roughly correct- she would have been born 1809 -1811/2 and thus unlikely to marry before 1828, by which time, if Stephen's 1871,1881 and d.c ages are correct[ even ignoring the 1861 blib] he, Stephen, could already have been born. . But still possible that she married aged 16/7 and he was born quickly afterwards. Even if not, she could still be the mother of John, Timothy & Patrick]. I suspect that Patrick, and thus Honorah & John, did not arrive in London until>1859, as he, Patrick, is not a godparent to one of Stephen's children [Michael] until 1861 . . . . .If so, we have Stephen b.c1827,[ godparent to the first of Timothy's children, Mary Lyons 1866, born in England]

John b.1830/3, [ 1894 d.c. gives him as 63, 1861C as 28, 1871C as 35, 1881C as 58!, 1891C as 61: feel the 1861 age is prob. the most reliable!!]

Timothy b.1831/4 -1878 [ only census he is in, 1871, gives him as 40, his 1878 d.c gives him as 43!!]

. . Marries Catherine Coughlan in Enniskeane Church, County Cork, 12/2/1861 - unfortunately no age given!.

. . .Dies 11/03/1878, in the St. Olave's Union Infirmary of T.B, Phthisis Pulmonalis, stated age 43, informant Catherine Lyons, widow of the deceased, in attendance, of 12 College Street, Tooley Street, Southwark. D.C.D18

& Patrick b.c1839[ & a Patrick Lyons is godfather in Oct. 1861 to Stephen's son, Michael, at Holy Trinity, Dockhead & also is godfather to Timothy's 1867 son Timothy] as brothers.

The Timothy, c.1834, here is connected by blind John Lyons, as this John is living with Stephen in 1871C, down as 'son' ,which I think was a mistake for 'brother'.

and with Timothy's widow, Catherine in 1881C [see paragraph below] : this must be more than a coincidence.

This Timothy married Catherine Coughlan 1861 in Enniskean,but I have failed to find evidence of Timothy Lyons''s baptism ~1831-4 & of the rest of this hypothetical family in the church records for Enniskean[ and neither did JL looking at the original Enniskean records in May 2009] and neighbouring parishes[ from the fiches in the NLI]. In Feb.2009, & again in Jan 2011, I searched exhaustively for baptisms for Stephen, John, Timothy & Patrick,1826-1841, to parents Timothy & Honorah, in probably ALL Cork parishes, with no seeming success. No marriage found either of a Timothy to a Honorah. But a union of a Timothy & Norry/Honorah Sullivan < 1827, shown by baptisms of John 1827, Catherine1831, Daniel 1834, & maybe Ellen 1838 around Carrigaline: no other baptisms found to this couple, & seemingly births of these children here mentioned preclude 'my children, Stephen,John & Timothy being born at roughly the same time. Thus I do not really think this couple could be Stephen's parents.

Also a union of a Timothy Lyons & Hon/Betty Murphy < 1829 at St. Marys Cork, shown by baptisms of Mary 1829, mother Hon. Murphy, & Timothy 1831 ,mother Betty Murphy.[Could an Honorah also call herself Betty??]. This possibility fits in with Stephen marrying in St. Marys in 1851, but does the 1871C referral to Stephen being born in County Cork exclude Cork City??[1861 & 1881 censuses just state Ireland, & 1891C for Catherine just says Cork So ,2011,feel I have been reading too much into the word 'County'. And our Timothy is given as aged 40 in 1871C. Thus feel this is the most probable origin of Timothy Lyons, afflicted.

When Timothy dies in March 1878 , blind John continues in his sister-in-law's household...

Meanwhile I would suspect that brother Patrick[ unfindable in 1871 and subsequent censuses] emigrated soon after Honorah died,1870-71: he could [only faint chance] have married Sep 1866 to CORRIGAN Anne Richmond Sry 2a 461 or to RYAN Mary Richmond S. 2a 461 .Interestingly, he could not write in 1870 [his mark on Honorah's d.c.], but hypothetical brother Stephen certainly could in 1883. There is a death in Mar 1871 Portsea 2b 308 of a Patrick Lyons aged 34 -just a slim possibility he might have joined the Navy/Army?. Also obtained the 1888 d.c. for a Patrick Lyons, 52, [thus born c 1836?], a Foreman Cooper of 99 East Lane; he fell down the stairs and there was an inquest [obtainable??], and informant is the deputy coroner, which doesnot help me identify him, but there is a Patrick, cooper, living at 99 EastLane in 1871C, and he was married before 1861 and had his first child in Ireland, so NOT US.