2014. I have found a flaw in the following logic: 2 William Turners existed born ~1775 in Lindsell. One married 1797 and then died in Thaxted in 1824. The other was the father of my Ezekiel and died in Lindsell 1841. Which one was born to John & Susannah??
Email from Heather Baldwin 1/9/2011.
Interestingly, there is a conveyance of Simpkins Lindsell in 1697 to Richard Turner, junior, gentleman, of Thaxted; this ~3 miles to the north of Great Easton on above map. I thought this Richard must be a candidate for being the father of my 7xggrandfather John Turner ~1696.. But with the above information from the Gt Easton Records, this probably not so, but he, Richard, could still be the 1673 brother of my Thomas 1667 - originally I thought that, being junior, in the conveyance, implied that his father was also a Richard, but, it could just be that there was an elder, maybe not closely related, Richard Turner in Thaxted .
I am researching the Thaxsted Turners and came across your reference to Richard Turner and the conveyance of Simpkins, Lindsell. My ancestor was Robert Turner son of Richard Turner who died in 1701- possibly the Simpkins Richard. Robert had an elder brother Richard who married a Hannah Allen. Untangling the Richard and Christopher Turners is proving something of a problem. It would be very interesting to see what the connection there is between the Thaxsted and Lindsell Turners. Robert moved to Tenterden in Kent around 1709 and only a recent google search showed his origins in Thaxsted, thanks to the Seax catalogue entry. Best wishes Libby Richardsonlibellenrichardson@gmail.com
Thomas Turner~1660 would have married Alice? in ~ 1685, where? Not, from my searches, in G.Easton, L.Easton, G.Bardfield, Thaxted, Broxted, Chickney, G.Dunmow, L. Dunmow [very poor fiche], Witham, Barnston or Lindsell [Stebbing marriage register only starts in 1712] .. . . .In Great Easton register, a Thomas Turner and wife Alice are producing children 1686-1698: Alice 10/11/1686, Prudence 26/6/1688, Henry 26/7/1691, Elizabeth 16/4/1693, John 13/5/1695 buried 16/5/1695, John Turner 4/10/1696 and Joseph 18/12/1698. This John is a candidate for my 7xggrandfather John Turner. At least the name Thomas can be seen to be used in further generations of Turner sons on the tree above.. As stated above, unsure whether Richard & Thomas can be brothers. Alternatively another John could have been born ~1685-1698 to a father Richard. Thaxted baptisms 1638-1692 & 1693-1755 - D/P 16/1/2 &3- are online Seax , but only found one child, Hannah Turner, born 1701 to a Richard & Hannah Turner. But, from other documents held by Seax, I know that a Richard Turner had an only son Christopher Turner. Also a William Turner, deceased by ~1695, had sons William & Richard. Also Richard Turner the elder had sons Richard junior, Robert & Edward. - need some rough dates here!
Either the 1697 conveyance of Simpkins is a red herring or my tree is wrong!
I am not 100% convinced that the John Turner who married Anne Savel in 1718 was the 1696 son of Thomas Turner & Alice: but, if he were, the lineage seems as follows:
Thomas Turner married Sarah Camps in 1615 in Great Easton. Image 24 on D/P 232/1/1.
They had: Thomas Turner 1615 [this only found in SOG by Heather & seemingly not on above: Image 24 of D/P 232/1/1- G.E bmd 1562-1749 ], Gabriel 1618, George 1622 -38, Gabriel 1626-32. But there appears to be a burial of a ???mos Turner shown above!
Thomas Turner 1615 married Helen./Eleanor Where? when? Have I checked Great Easton 1633-1636??
They had Robert Turner 25/2/1636, Mary 27/5/1638 & Simon 1640, all in Great Easton.
Robert Turner 1636 married Susan .Where? When? Have I checked Great Easton 1660-1666??
They had Susan 2/5/1666, Thomas Turner 29/12/1667, Robert 10/10/1669, Susannah 8/10/1671, Richard 26/10/1673 & John 3/6/1677. All in Great Easton - I think!!
Thomas Turner 1667 married Alice Where? When? Have I checked Great Easton 1686-1686??
They had Alice 1686, Prudence 1688, Henry 1691, Elizabeth 1693, John 1695, John Turner 1696, Joseph 1698
From hereon there is no element of doubt!
John Turner,1696? , married Anne Savel, 26 May 1718 in Lindsell Parish Church [Seax-D/P 110/1/1].
I have a John 1693 down as in Lindsell, but do not have this baptism: 1693 [& 1697 for Anne Savell] have just come from IGI records of their marriage with no baptism records found!!!; IF it were true, I could conclude that this was defintely NOT a 1699 Finchingfield birth and indeed the 1696 Great Easton baptism seems far more likely . presumably there are no John Turners baptised in Lindsell 1690-1700?? I do have an Ann Savel baptised 1686 in Little Easton to Henry Savil and Elizabeth Lee - see ** at end of tree: but surely this,1686, is too early? - she would have been 32 at the marriage
They had 6 children, all baptised at Lindsell Parish Church: [all on fiche D/P 110/1/1-Seax]
John , 31/05/1719, William , 26/02/1721, James[Jacobus , 16/06/1723, Richard Turner, 1/05/1726. Matthew, 14/4/1728 & Thomas, 6/05/1733.
Richard Turner,1726, married Sarah Batty, 12 May 1747 in Lindsell Church. No obvious baptism of her 1719-1732.
They had 7 children, all baptised in Lindsell:
John Turner, 8/10/1749, Sarah 1751, Elizabeth 1754-bapt.aged 7, James 1757 -bapt.aged 4, Susanna 1761,William 1764-bapt.aged 4, Mary 1768.
Do not know anything about William 1764; could he be the William who married a Sarah?, somewhere ,sometime, and produced Judey 1795 to Abraham 1803??
John Turner, 1749-1827, married Susanna Smith , 5 Oct 1769 in Lindsell Church. He was recorded as a plough servant, she as a servant. She was born 26/06/1748?[not on baptism entry!!] & baptised 4/09/1748 in Lindsell[. Her parents were Stephen Smith,[ prob. bapt. 31/5/1699 Thaxted to parents Stephen & Ann Smith,] & Mary Harvey - no baptism found in Lindsell 1696-1719 , married 8/10/1734 in neighbouring Tilty, [unfortunately baptisms 1689-1724 are missing, damaged, for Tilty] - and she had 8 siblings[have recorded baptisms for 6 of them 1735-1751). Susannah was buried , aged 62, on 20/06/1810 in Lindsell. She had at least 5 siblings 1735-1751, John Sharman being descended from Edward Smith 1751. John Turner was buried 16/12/1827, Lindsell, stated age 79.
Baptism 1747and Burial 1810 Entries for Susannah Smith/Turner , both in Lindsell.
On this burial entry are both the ggrandmother, Susanna Turner, & ggrandfather, Joseph Wilkinson, of William Turner 1840. Or, in other words, my 5x ggrandmother and my 5x ggrandfather
8/10/1734 Marriage entry for parents of Susannah Smith: Stephen Smith and Mary Harvey in Tilty.
They, John and Susannah Turner, had 7 children, all baptised in Lindsell:
Judith 1770 , Sarah 1773 , William 20/08/1775, Thomas 1778, must have died, Thomas 3/06/1781, James 17/04/1785, & Joseph 1787. .
. . .Joseph Turner, 1787-1826, married Grace Lyne John s[from Cornwall, father Nicholas ,from record of her 3rd marriage to Charles Smith in 1839]] c.1816? and they had: Thomas 1815-born in Dublin ,from 1861C, Elizabeth 1818, Mary 1820, Susanna 1822, Joseph 1824 [born Aug 1824 and bap 4 Jun 1840 at Lindsell], Charlotte 1826{born 12 May 1826 and bap 15 May 1842], Samson 1831 [born 24 Mar 1831 and bap 15 May 1842, son of Grace of Lindsell a widow (no father shown)]. Joseph died in Dec 1826[buried 27 Dec 1826 in the church at Lindsell.] . Grace remarried Jeremiah Perry, a widower with one child, Arthur,c.1823, in Mar 1833, and they had Ephraim Perry [born 1 Jul 1833 and bap 8 Jan 1843!]. Jeremiah died in 1835[ buried in Lindsell church 15 Mar 1835 aged 44 years]. and Grace remarried, again, a Charles Smith, just 24, in 1839, [witnesses to the marriage James Smith & Susannah Turner- her daughter 1822?] and they are in 1841C, Lindsell, p.3 of District 9: Charles 25, Grace 45, Arthur Perry 17, Mary Turner 20, & Joseph Turner 16."The marriage for Samson Turner on 20 Sep 1851 states that he was a minor and so was his wife Anna Rushen Witnesses were Thomas Turner and Sarah Parker, and no father was given. From this I wondered whether Grace actually knew who the father of Samson was. He is shown as a Turner but was born1831-5yrs after the death of Joseph so he could have been a Perry [or anything else] ". [from Susan Sharman, bracketted comments mine]
. . . . . . . . . . Thomas,1815?, aged 49 and born in Dublin is in 1861C, and unable to do any work, married to a Charlotte Perry, 49, with 4 children, Hezekiah 13, William 11, Ellen 4 & Charles 3, Duck End Lane, Lindsell. I already supposed his father Joseph must have been a fencible to come across a bride in Cornwall, and if he were then posted to Ireland with the Militia, then their first child could have been born out there. Thomas has died by 1871{Mar 1862 Dunmow] and Charlotte has remarried a William Bambridge in Dec 1864, still living in Lindsell in 1871C. April 2010: this Charlotte is connected to a new Perry contact -Glenys, email- and she has this 1864 m.c.: Charlotte's father is Jeremiah Perry, labourer .
. . . . . . . . . . Charlotte Turner,1826. Wilks Tree on Ancestry has descendants of Charlotte Perry Turner 1826, who married a Wilks in Lindsell & died in Bear Lake 1879. She would have inserted the Perry into her name as she never knew Joseph Turner, her father, who died in Dec 1826, and was brought up from 1833-1835 by a stepfather, Jeremiah Perry.
. . . . . . . . . . Sampson Turner,1831[fatherless!], marries Anna Rushen, and Gill Ketley, Genes, is descended from them- see tree at bottom.. A new version of this now exists, with more details for Joseph & Grace. Gill comes down from Thomas 1872, thru' Phyllis Turner 1907, her grandmother.
William Turner, 1775-1841, may have married Sarah ? pre 1797. and maybe this Sarah died ~1803/4. No burial in D/P 110/1/1.. But this union could have been that of William 1764, an uncle of William 1775!! . . . . In 2012, Have searched for his 2 marriages 1790-5 and 1803-4 in the neighbouring parishes of Shalford & Panfield. Still to try Rayne, Great Saling, Great Bardfield
They had the following 4 children, all baptised in Lindsell, none showing occupation of the father:
. . . . . Judey Turner 11/11/1797 , Sarah Turner 21/04/1799 , Peter Turner 14/04/1801 , & Abraham Turner 20/03/1803, but these births may be to this William's uncle, born 1764: see top tree.. But William 1775 did have an eldest sister Judith 1770 & this William calls his first child Judey
. . ..Ruder Tree on Ancestry is descended from Judith Turner,1797, & they have her father as being our William. [this tree seemingly no longer on Ancestry in 2011: 4 'rubbish' trees exist for Judith 1797: Chittock, 2 x Pratt & Cousins. .Again there was no marriage of William to Sarah in the Ruder tree. .
. . . . . . . . . Peter Turner, 1801 - 1881, married Sophia Perry on 3/3/1826, she died 1890, from Broxted, in Lindsell. William & Abraham Turner were witnesses, both mark. Daughter Sarah Turner was born to them 18/6/1826. In 1837 he, stated age 40, received 13/6d from the Lindsell Paupers payout book, for 'midwife & wife ill' [ no child recorded for this year but could have been stillborn or died at birth]. And £1.4s in 1838 due to 'inclemency of weather'. D/P 110/20/1,2 Highway Rate 1839, & also 1843, has Peter Turner paying 1s.8d . In 1841C ag.lab.at Simpkins . Peter, stated age 43, & family received more money in 1845 due to 'illness'. In 1861& 1871 they were shopkeepers.1881C, he is 80, Pollard Dealer & gen. shopkeeper and she, 78, is shopkeeper. Of their 7 known children, I have descendants of 2 of them: 1. James Turner, 1831-1904 [d.Lindsell] married Emma Hicks in 1853, Dunmow , & one of the sons of James & Emma, Shadrack, b.1858, Lindsell married a Mary Milligan in Stepney.[Libby & Hicks/Thompson Ancestry trees] & one of their daughters, Alice,1863, married a Stanley and Heather Baldwin is descended from them. 2. Thomas Turner,1833, married Esther and their lastborn, James Turner, 1869, down generations has a descendant, Katy Philpin.
. . . . . . . . . . .Abraham Turner, 1803, married Susanna Trub 26/10/1826, Lindsell, witness Elizabeth Turner, mark. William Turner was born to them 11/2/1827 . D/P 110/20/1,2 Highway Rate 1839,& also 1843, has Abraham Turner paying 1s.8d .
William Turner 1775-1841 remarried Mary? Neither of these William marriages found.; could they have been in a different parish, that of the bride?[I searched both the Lindsell parish register & the transcript; after 1769 I only found one Turner marriage entry, that of James Turner to Lydia Poulter in 1810. I searched 1790-1804 again in 2011 for many surrounding parishes - 2012 Shalford]. But, in 2011, I did find that
'William Turner of Lindsell, full age, bachelor, married, by licence, a Mary Taylor of Thaxted, in Thaxted on 14/9/1797' - D/P16/1/7 image 70 . William Turner never actually signed this!, and there was a William Turner as a witness. How many William Turners were there in Lindsell?. Do not think this can be my William, as 1. no children until 1804, 2. my conviction that the William who married Sarah above was the father of my Ezekiel!. But there is a burial in Thaxted of a William Turner, aged 49, in 1824- this likely he who married 1797, born~ 1775 - FMP National Burial Index .Searched Thaxted baptisms 1797-1803 - images 35 onwards - found no obvious baptisms to this couple: writing faded though .
THUS, we would seem to have 2 William Turners, both born ~1775 in Lindsell: one buried in Lindsell in 1841, aged 66, and this one buried 1824 in Thaxted, aged 49 . Thus my assumption that my William Turner was baptised to John and Susannah in 1775 is only a 50% chance!!
Also, I found on D/CR 230, Lindsell Transcripts & on D/P 110/1/4, that a William Turner was a Witness on many marriages: this fits in with his being the Parish Clerk, but he was still witnessing with his mark. It surprises me that a parish Clerk could not write!. Maybe they just used a mark for speed?
William Turner was buried Lindsell, 11/7/1841, aged 66, for 30 years Clerk to this parish. Curiously, no Bmd entry for this!
William & Mary Turner had the following 5 children, all baptised Lindsell, William being described as the parish/church clerk on the last two:
Elizabeth 25/11/1804, Mary 9/10/1808, Mark 25/03/1810, Ezekiel 20/02/1814 & Shadrack 7/05/1815. Did their mother Mary? die soon after 1815 as no more births.
Lindsell Rates exist 1800-1801, 1816-1817 & 1823-1859 But cannot now find these on Seax Q/CR 1/9/9??? - might tell me more about William's, & then Ezekiel's, life. Lindsell Paupers, D/P 110/18/6, has handouts to William, stated age 59, in 1838, £1.4s due to 'infirm', and to his children Peter, Abraham,[£4.3.7d in 1837], Ezekiel & Shadrach, over the years 1836-1850. D/P 110/20/1,2. Highway Rate 1839, has William Turner paying 2s.8d on a cottage & applotment.
. . . .Mark Turner,1810- 1873. 1841C. Baptised 25/3/1810 on D/P 110/1/1. Aged 30, servant on a farm at Gt. Bardfield.[3 miles north of Lindsell]. Marries Dec 1842 Dunmow 12.135 to Hannah White or Eliza Ridgewell: almost certainly the latter, as she, aged 18, is almost next door to Mark in Gt. Bardfield in 1841C. Wife dies before 1861; there are 2 Elizabeth Turner deaths in Dunmow for this period, Mar 1846 - this a 79 yr old in Gt Bardfield -or Jun 1848, and one for Eliza Turner in 1850. No burial in Lindsell of a Hannah or Eliza Turner, 1842-1861. Have searched Gt. Bardfield Burials 1846-1850. No baptisms to them 1842-1846 in G.B. Presumably Mark is still in Dunmow area in 1851C, as no entry for him in Essex. 1861C. Aged 45, lodger, ag. lab., widower, in Hermans Hill, Wanstead. 1871C. Aged 62, lodger, widower, ag.lab., in Great Easton. Died in Dunmow Union Workhouse in 1873. Buried Lindsell, 13/03/1873, aged 64.
. . . Shadrack Turner, 1815 - 1854. Baptised 7/5/1815 in Lindsell Church, father Ezekiel Turner given as church clerk . In 1834 he was a witness at the Lindsell wedding of Samuel Wilkinson to Susanna Thake. Married , aged 23, Anne Farrow, 21, a blacksmith's daughter, 26/8/1838 fathers William Turner, labourer & Joseph Farrow, blacksmith. Witness Ezekiel Turner, mark, although brother Shadrack seemingly signed.. .[ 2 children, Ann, born 17/1/1839, baptised Lindsell 22/12/1839, father labourer,- descendant Pip email has the 1838 m.c. - .& Mary c1845. - . Shadrach is mentioned as receiving money from Lindsell Paupers, D/P 110/18/6, in 1850. Buried in Lindsell, 25/10/1854- does Pip have d.c.?. His widow does not remarry. 1861C, Ann Turner, 50, widow, housekeeper, with daughter Mary ,15, servant, at Church End, Lindsell. 1871C, she, 66?, is still a housekeeper to the same farmer. She could die 1878/1884, given age 73, so likely in 1884, but is she in the 1881C? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Anne Turner, 1838, married George Claydon in 1858, & they had Anne, 1860 . .1861C, George Claydon , 23, a gentleman's groom, Anne 21, Anne 1, living at the Down,Stebbing . Mary Claydon was baptised Stebbing 3/11/1862. .. . . . . . . 1871C, mistranscribed as Clayton, he now an ag. labourer. . . . . . Mary Claydon, married John Reeve Pearl in 1886 and in 1901C, John Pearl is a farmer in Great Warley, employer, at Great Warley Hall, all children 1-11 born at Great Warley, youngest Philip C Pearl, 1899, was Pip's father. Anne Turner 1839 tree shown below
1841C. William Turner, 65, Ezekiel 26, Shadrack, 25, & Shadrack’s wife & daughter at Simpkins [ map], Lindsell. Peter Turner, 40, & Abraham Turner, 38, & families are living adjacent : these likely sons of William's from his first marriage
William Turner was buried on 11/07/1841 , aged 66, 'For 30 years Clerk to this Parish', in Lindsell, i.e ~1811-1841. Would the informant on his d.c.be informative? [Looked on D/P 110/1/1 to see if he appeared as a footnote on any pages, but think only the vicar and churchwardens were ever referred to. From another parish register I noticed that the parish clerk there received 30s. per annum. ] . I have noted down that Abraham Turner,1803, was also Church Clerk by 1847, another support for my theory that this William was his father. I did not find Turner deaths 1813-35 on D/P 110/1/11 whilst I had found Perry & Wilkinson deaths- Look again. Description for a Parish Clerk : Should be at least 20 yrs old. Known to the person as a man of honest conversation & sufficient for his reading ,writing & competent skill in singing. Functions: reading lessons & epistles, singing in the choir, giving out hymns, leading the responses, ringing the bells, digging graves if no sexton. But, it was just the Mark- not a written signature, of William Turner that often appeared on the parish marriages 1815 onwards?
Tree for Children of John Turner 1749
Other Ancestry Trees::
Pettitt .Goes back to John, 1693, but has William, 1764, being a son of John & Susannah -unlikely as John only 15 then!. Have not fathomed out who is descended from who! Put comment on their tree, Sep 2008. Never heard back from them.
Hicks & Thompson. Goes back thru' Shadrack,1859, to James. 1831: & he is son of Peter,1801. So, common ancestor probably William 1775 .Put comment on their tree, Sep 2008.
Libby . Descends from James 1831 as above Hicks & Thompson.
I have Edward Turner born 1866 down as son of James Turner and Emma Hicks and he married Lizzie Wren, I will need to check that out. Where you have final child as Sarah 1866 I have 1867 and she was known as Selena. She died 2.8.1894.
I did a lot of this research in conjunction with the American descendant of Shadrach Turner, son of James and Emma and brother of my Great grandmother Sarah Alice Turner .
James Turner was also married to Susan Pickett (widow of stock) in 1890, Emma having died at the aged of 38. There was talk of another marriage as well but did not find this.. James Turner died of cancer of the lip at age 73. His son Edward Turner present at death.! Looking back on some of the notes my American 'cousin' made (she has since died), against Edward she writes - no record of his Bap in Lindsell, information given by English researcher for Ronald Turner estate. [Heather Baldwin]