Elizabeth Mary Josephine Lyons, 1888-1969

1888 born 24/04/1888 at 11, Goldsmiths Terrace, Goldsmith Road, Peckham. Possess Birth Certificate B9. Parents Timothy & Elizabeth [nee Tobin] Lyons. Their 5th child.

Known as Josie .

1891Census.   Living at 34 Kinross Street,[this has been demolished, but was off Tanner Street] Bermondsey.

  age  
Timothy   Lyons  39 Head     Leather Warehouseman born Bermondsey
Elizabeth      37 born Bermondsey
William     10   Scholar    born Bermondsey
Ellen    6    Scholar             born Southwark
Mary J.     3       born Peckham

1901 Census. Living at 9 Wilds Rents Bermondsey
Timothy S. 48 Dock Labourer b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 45 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 9, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Bermondsey
Josephine 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Peckham
Helen 15 . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . b.Blackfriars
William J. 19 General Carman. b.Bermondsey
David Tobin 30 married Wharf Labourer. b.Bermondsey . Thus the family with 4 surviving children plus Elizabeth's brother, David, 30, once again.

1911C. Aged 23, milliner, b. Bermondsey, with her parents in 3 Marcia Road, occupying 4 rooms. Her 2 sisters are living separately.

Josie [as she was always called] married William Collins Jun 1919 Southwark 1d.283 [Cannot find the entry in her name for marriage: just a ref. for William Collins marrying a Lyons] . Did they marry in a Catholic Church or in a registry Office?? A William Henry Collins lived, & owned?, in 4 Marcia Place in 1891- from Rate book?? In 1901 a William H. Collins 11, in Ventry Place Newington, with father William Henry,34, costermonger, but cannot find them in 1891C! And not obviously in 1911C. They had 1 child Irene E.J.Collins Lambeth, Mar, 1920 1d.624 [E.J. are her mother's initials, Elizabeth Josephine] who died, aged 2, Camberwell Jun 1922 1d.798.. It is thought that maybe one of her sisters looked after Irene.; this would tie in with the thought that she, Josie, was slightly simple.

There is a story that Helen Blackmore , unable to have children with her husband, might have adopted Josie's child, but I can find no proof for this. Indeed, by Dec 1923 the Blackmores are already living in Stoke Newington and Irene died south of the river in Camberwell..Quote from Philippa: Mother [Hilda] said that Josie's daughter might have been adopted by Aunt Nell & Uncle Jack because they couldn't have children and Josie couldn't afford to keep her but that the little girl had died. Josie was either separated or divorced. She was in low-paid employment, domestic service I think. I'm pretty sure the other sister[Elizabeth} lived near Croydon as did Josie. [But Elizabeth, as Elizabeth Allen ,lived in Marcia Road, Southwark 1924-1939, so could only have gone to Croyden after that].
Mother said that all the sibs had a troubled relationship with William which she put down to their mother's[ Elizabeth Tobin] gossiping. She talked about them behind their backs. Grandma Jessie didn't like William's mother. Apparently she drank - was always at the pub with a group of other women!
[This would seem extraordinary for the times, so maybe this story arose from a mutual dislike between Jessie and Elizabeth]

Josie was still alive in the 1950s, and Philippa Neil[ Hilda's daughter] remembers her visiting them in Harrow. There is a picture of her at the 1934 wedding of Eva Lyons. Probably lived in Croydon post war. I wonder if Hilda's photo albums might contain a decent picture of her.

1969. Almost certainly died: Mary Josephine Collins, born 24/2/1888, died Croydon Sep1969.

For details of her family tree and of her childhood ,return to

Timothy Lyons

Lyons family main page