David Tobin was orphaned in Dec 1880, aged 13, and he has remained[ since obviously there from 1877] in his sister’s household. Sister Margaret 17 is working ? as a collar ironer-from Nicola.

And in the same house is John Allen, aged 3, b. Bermondsey: is he the man Elizabeth Lyons ,1891, marries in 1915?

 

1882 Margaret born.   [As Lyons Lilian Margaret,’Dec’1882, Camberwell,1d.906 ]. No baptism for her or William in The  Sacred Heart Church Camberwell

On consecutive days,

1883. 25/10/1883, Margaret, 1, dies. Suppressed Scarlet Fever , at 57 Pepler Road, Old Kent Road.. Death registered by Timothy, 26/10/1883 .Death Cert.D5

1883. 26/10/1883, Stephen,5, dies Scarlet Fever 4 days[Maligna], at 57 Pepler Road, Old Kent Road. Death registered by Timothy, 26/10/1883. Death Cert.D6. Contacted Anthony Plummer at the Our Lady of Sorrows church Peckham 18/4/2010 and no Lyons baptisms nor records of these 2 deaths there. They were both buried at St. Patrick's Catholic Leytonstone cemetery, 29/10/1883, their bodies being sent from Pepler Road.

So, Elizabeth has lost both parents and 2 of her 3 children in just 6 years.

1885. Helen, daughter born 27/09/1885 at 41, Stamford Street,[ this has been redeveloped] Christ Church, Surrey. Birth Cert B8 . Timothy, father, given as Mercantile Clerk. Following info. from Bernard Cullen, researcher St. Georges RCC: Born 27/09/1885, baptised 25 /10/1885 Helen Lyons daughter of Timothy & Elizabeth Lyons (nee Tobin) God parents Michael Lynch & Helen Buckley at St. Georges RCC..Rev. J. Golden. Ref. V6 - 67 . . This is the only baptism for his 6 children that I have found . Called Ellen and then Nellie in later life.

1888 Elizabeth Mary Josephine, daughter born 24/4/1888 at 11 Goldsmith Terrace,Goldsmith Road, Peckham. Birth Cert B9. Timothy, father, given as Tram Car Conductor.. Called Josephine or Josie . No baptism found

1888. His father Stephen is admitted to St. Olave's workhouse as 'destitute', from 30/7/1888 to 17/9/1888. . Has he quarelled with him or is he really unable to privide for him?

1890 Father, Stephen, dies, aged 63, 1/3/1890, having been admitted to St. Olaves Unfirmary in November 1889. . On his d.c. his occupation is Hide sorter . Death Cert. D1.

1890. Living in 34 Kinross Street : this being the address for sister-in-law Margaret Tobin when she marries William Rixon 12/1/1890

1891Census.   Living at 34 Kinross Street,[this has been demolished, but was off Tanner Street] Bermondsey, in 3 rooms, 2 other families in the house. Elizabeth's two surviving siblings, Margaret Rixon & David Tobin, were living at 10 Kinross Street , as visitors, in this census. .

	age
Timothy   Lyons	39	Head     Leather Warehouseman born Bermondsey
Elizabeth	37	born Bermondsey
William	10	Scholar    born Bermondsey
Ellen	6	Scholar             born Southwark
Mary J.	3	born Peckham

1891 Elizabeth, daughter born 20/08/1891at 10 Block D, Peabody Buildings. Bermondsey Birth Cert B10. Timothy, father, given as Skin Warehouseman. No baptism found.

1892. His mother, Catherine Lyons, is admitted to St. Olaves Infirmary 4/3/1892 and there till 30/5/1892, reason given as 'own request'. On 10/8/1892 she is admitted to St. Olaves Workhouse, reason given as 'sons neglect', sons being listed as Michael of 12 Curlew St. and he, Timothy, & Stephen of unknown address. She is discharged from there on 18/8/1892. Then on 22/8/1892 she is admitted to St.Peters House, Lambeth, run by the Little Sisters of the Poor. She lives there for 10 years until her death in 1902. So, it would appear that he, Timothy, took no care of / had no contact with, her from 1892 or before, even though he would appear to have had a steady job as a leather/skin warehouseman through 1891 & was living in 3 rooms.. But he must have kept in contact with brother Michael, as their 2 sons, William John & Stephen Patrick, were friends c1915-1930.

1894. Tower Bridge was opened. There is a family story, told by his grandson, Francis, to his daughter Hazel and to his granddaughter Alice Richardson, that a reward was offered for the first person to dive off the bridge on its opening day.

1901 Census. Living at 9 Wilds Rents Bermondsey, in 4 rooms, 1 other family in the house.
Timothy S. 48 Dock Labourer b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 45 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 9, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Bermondsey
Josephine 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Peckham
Helen 15 . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . b.Blackfriars
William J. 19 General Carman. b.Bermondsey
David Tobin 30 married Wharf Labourer. b.Bermondsey . Thus the family with 4 surviving children plus Elizabeth's brother, David, 30, once again. Odd that David Tobin is given as married: although 2 1890 marriages, no trace of him or his putative wife[ from BMD] in 1891C, and I think it is he, single, in 1911C, in Belmont workhouse. Any Admission & Discharge fiche/book in LMA??

Appears in the Electoral Roll Books at 9 Wilds Rents from 1898 until 1907-8 [these books start in 1887]. He is listed as Timothy Stephen Lyons, the first reference I have seen to his middle name.[ His b.c just says Timothy Lyons and I have not found his baptism record].

1909.Only surviving son, William, marries Jessie Sullivan, a protestant, in a protestant church. It is thought that daughter-in-law Jessie had little to do with Elizabeth after the marriage[ family lore, from Hilda Lyons,1910, has it that Elizabeth drank with women friends in The Dun Cow pub; whereas Timothy is remembered as 'a nice old gentleman'] But William did take his children to worship at the Church of the English Martyrs, Walworth, where they remembered praying for the souls of their grandparents, Timothy & Elizabeth, after their deaths in late 1923, early 1924. .

1909. Moves to 3, Marcia Road[ see mention of electoral roll books further on].

1911C. Timothy S. Lyons, 59, General Labourer, Wharf Dock Worker, with Elizabeth, 57, married 32 yrs, 6 children, 2 died, and Josephine, 23, Milliner, in 4 rooms at 3, Marcia Road., Old Kent Road. . His other 2 daughters,.Elizabeth A.,19, housemaid, and Ellen , 24, barmaid, are living at a Mrs Page's licensed Victuallers, The Pineapple Public House , 7 St George's Road S E, in the whole house,8 rooms

. Wife's younger brother, David Tobin, 43, single , packer & sorter, is in the Belmont Workhouse, Brighton Road, Sutton.

There were 2 other separate family units living in 3 Marcia Road: a family of 3 Garrard [1 a baby] in 1 room, and a couple Winegarden in 1 room front, he a Leather dresser from Austria with an English wife

1915. Youngest daughter, Elizabeth, marries John Allen. Sep Southwark 1d 332 [They are living with William by 1918; no Electoral Roll Books exist 1916/7]. Did they marry in a Catholic Church or in a registry Office?

Timothy Stephen Lyons[ another appearance of Stephen as a middle name!, although he has become Timothy S Lyons in 1901 & 1911censuses] appears at 3 Marcia Road in the twice yearly Electoral Roll books from 1909-10 onwards, until Spring 1924 when it is just Elizabeth. Her brother,David[Dobin- presumably a writing error], appears with them in Spring,1921[ but in 1911C is probably in Belmont Workhouse] . Rose & JWA Burkmar, and Lilian Haley are also living there from 1921 to 1930 and 1924 respectively.[do not think any of these were servants: the 1911C entry is above and only the 3 of them in the household]

By Autumn 1924, after Elizabeth’s death,  John & Elizabeth [1891,Lyons] Allen are also there [and also the Burkmars] and stay there up till the last Roll book prewar,1939-40. By the first postwar book, 1945, no. 3 is no longer there [ the street did get bombed, a V1 outside no. 58, but little physical damage done. It has now been completely rebuilt, being demolished 1980s-1990s and then rebuilt on the original footprints , incorporating most of its previous Victorian design].

1923. Timothy dies 10/12/1923 at 3 Marcia Road , aged 71, a Tea Warehouseman. Cause of Death: 1, Bronchitis. 2, Cerebral Hoemorhage. Informant on the death certificate was H. Blackmore (the now married daughter Helen) of 47 Darville Road, Stoke Newington. Death Certificate D3 . Seemingly no Will[Ancestry National probate records], whereas his widow left one 3 months later.

Below the burial entry  on 13/12/1923 from the Church of the English Martyrs, burial in Leytonstone Cemetery.

Note: Peter Hunter Gillespie was an Insurance Broker, aged 44 in 1911C, living with family and a servant in 8 rooms at 78 Blenheim Gardens, Williesden, NW.: presumably William John wrote his name on Timothy's funeral card in 1932- maybe Gillespie was also an acquaintance of his father's. Thus the above card must have been rescued from the debris of 9 Kenton Gardens in 1944.

1924. His wife Elizabeth dies 4/03/1924, aged 69, also at 3 Marcia Road, Bermondsey. Cause of Death: 1. Bronchitis. 2. Cerebralapoplecy Coma. Informant was E.Allen (the now married daughter Elizabeth), also by now living at 3, Marcia Road. Death Certificate D4. She did leave a will, effects of £27, Elizabeth Allen being the executor: was this will to stop some of her children sharing in this small amount?? Have applied for this - 17/9/2010

 

Also possess  burial entry on 10/03/1924 from the Church of the English Martyrs, burial in Leytonstone Cemetery. No graves have survived but the grave numbers are known: Timothy Grave 24, Row 13, Plot 11B. Elizabeth Grave 30, Row 14, Plot 11B.

 

Could not find the deeds for 10 or 21 Darwin Street, nor for 3 Marcia Road ,nor mention of T/W.J. Lyons in the Southwark Local History Deeds. he obviously did not own the house, but was just renting 3 rooms, on one floor, the ground, I assume.

.Summary of places he lived.

(These dates known from b.c, censuses, death certificates for Margaret & Stephen & birth certificates of Stephen, William, Helen, E. M. Josephine, & Elizabeth & m.c of Margaret Tobin)

Children of Timothy Lyons